The New Huntmastersbbs!


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The New Huntmastersbbs!   » Firearms forum   » What is the process to have a bolt gun built? (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 7 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7 
 
Author Topic: What is the process to have a bolt gun built?
Aaron Rhoades
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4234

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 08:52 AM      Profile for Aaron Rhoades           Edit/Delete Post 
My brother is telling me that a .17-204 is what I should try for coyotes. So I'm wondering what I need to do to get it built. My thoughts are using a Benchmark barrel as they are local to me or a Lilja as that's what he has and he likes it. I have a Tikka t3 in .243, will that work as a donor action? Any suggestions for length, twist, contour? This would be for a calling rifle.
Posts: 155 | From: Washington | Registered: Oct 2012  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 09:41 AM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
Money is the key to making it work.

I would use a rifle with a smaller boltface. Preferably a used 204 Ruger. That way you have a magazine setup with the 17-204 cartridge boltface, mag and follower already setup.

I hear a lot of good about Lilja barrels. I had one Lilja chambered up in 17 Mach IV for a friend, and it is a shooter, ask Vic, he is the present owner. Shilen and Pacnor worked well for me too.

I suggest that you do your homework on the gunsmith you will use. In my experience, if they tell you 3-6 months, triple it and then just patiently wait. Some on the other hand are very quick.

[ January 08, 2014, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]

--------------------
futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 09:49 AM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
I personally like a #3 or 4 contour at 24" long and I would get a 1-9 twist, not a 1-10. A Rem 700 type action, and a good stock. You can go Rem 700, or Stiller, or other custom action depending on your wants and money situation, same as a McMillan stock. I personally like the McMillan in the hunter config, similar to the Sako stock.

Right now my 17-204 is a Factory CZ527 17 Varmint rechambered to 17-204 and it shoots great. That could be the most practical way to go, but they are getting harder to find and costly, like the older Rem 700 17 Rem sporters. I believe CZ makes a better factory barrel than the Remington. Again just my opinion.

--------------------
futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 10:42 AM      Profile for knockemdown   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Agree.
Stick with a Lilja in the .172 flavor
#3 or 4, 24-26"...longer if ya wanna eeek out the speed.
1:9 twist, fo' sho'

Skip the 'one size fits all' Tikka action to build on, IMHO. It's a nice piece, but if I'm throwing a long bolt, the rifle is gonna be chambered in a long action cartridge.
The 243 case uses a .473" boltface, too big to run a 17/204 on. You need a .378" boltface, so look for a donor rifle chambered in .223, 17Rem, .204 etc., so you can use the same bolt.

Good luck & have fun!

Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 11:28 AM      Profile for Prune Picker   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Just a heads up concerning the Tikka or non Mauser Sakos. The barrel threads are metric and some gunsmiths can't or won't buy the equipment to convert their lathes to cut them.

--------------------
mike

Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012  |  IP: Logged
TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 12:35 PM      Profile for TRnCO   Email TRnCO         Edit/Delete Post 
does your brother have enough bullets that he'll share with you. Good .172 coyote killing bullets are real hard to come by these days.

--------------------
Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!

Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 01:55 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, time to question the recommendation.

As far as I am concerned, a 17/204 might not cover every and all coyote hunting applications. What it is, is a good choice for someone primarily interested in recovering pelts.

Also, it is a bit of an expert's cartridge and someone needs to understand the limitations....including, as mentioned, suitable bullets.

So, while a rifle chambered in 17/204 is useful, there are other choices, depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

For my money, really serious coyote calibers begin with 22-250 and 55 grain bullets. Others may have a different opinion, but this is just like the friend's suggestion, everybody has an opinion.

Good hunting. El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31262 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 03:02 PM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
No argument from me LB, but he sounded like he was set on a 17-204. The 17-204 is one of my favorite coyote cartridges too.

He already has a 243, which IMO is a hard cartridge to beat for killing coyotes and small game. Heck, George Garner from GAP has already shown that a fast twist 243 can take you out to 1000 yards for competitions. I'm sure that a good 243 in the right hands can put coyotes down further than most people are capable of.

If I were to start over, and didn't like the 17's so much and didn't already have a few thousand bullets on the shelf, I might build another 22-250AI or 6XC or such.

--------------------
futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 03:28 PM      Profile for jimanaz           Edit/Delete Post 
Although I don't have any personal experience with a 17-204, I've heard stories, and not all of them are good. The bullet availability question would be a big concern to me too.

Were I in your shoes, and felt the need to build something, I'd stay within the 6MM variance, even if it's just to Ackleyize what you already have. THAT will kill coyotes better than the best 17-204 money can buy. If you get joy from saving fur, excuse my interruption. If you like making coyotes dead from here to there, my suggestion has merit.

Rifle builds are like many vices, they can run from quite affordable, to Holy shit, depending on preferences.

Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged
Aaron Rhoades
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4234

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 04:26 PM      Profile for Aaron Rhoades           Edit/Delete Post 
I do get joy from saving fur, that's the reason I want to try this caliber.
Posts: 155 | From: Washington | Registered: Oct 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 05:05 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Okay, fair enough. What would you say is your personal level of experience? Enough to limit and the discretion to take only high percentage shots?

Anyway, getting back to the build.

1) you need to decide on someone to do the work

2) you need to decide on an action

3) pick a barrel maker, and pay particular attention to twist, length and contour

4) Order your stock, the sooner, the better. Stock can have solid fill, lite foam, or hollow.

5) Decide on color options

6) consider trigger options

7) get your brass ordered, bullets and seek opinions on suitable powders

8) Now wait. And wait.

In my experience, the whole process can take a year, before load development and you are actually killing with it.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ January 08, 2014, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31262 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 05:12 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
And, this is why, my last urge, I decided on cash and carry. Bought an estate sale ready made rifle and have been especially happy with it.

Good luck, LB

edit: completely custom build right down to the Hart barrel(s) and the jewel trigger
Edit: have been told; I stole it!

[ January 08, 2014, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31262 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 05:30 PM      Profile for jimanaz           Edit/Delete Post 
You know, something just crossed my mind and while hijacking is illegal most of the time...

I shot a 17Rem several years ago for a while and just never developed the love for 17s that some folks have. Yep, it's fast. Yep, recoil is non-existent. I just never could understand what separates 17s from 223s in the cultists. Pretty much same effective range, regardless of what follows 17, add Ackley, 204, 223 etc. Pretty much the same in fur friendliness with the right combination. Is it just the idea of killing something with a BB sized projectile. Seriously, what's the overwhelming attraction?

Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 05:41 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
You KNOW the answer. It's a religion. You have to believe.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: hijacking is never illegal on Huntmasters.

[ January 08, 2014, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31262 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 05:53 PM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know that I can answer your questions.

Some guys like scotch, some like bourbon. I personally hate cold coffee, but feel the need for hot coffee in the morning.

Maybe Vic or DAA will answer it. Heck some people even went to a 14 cal. Idunno!

--------------------
futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19

Icon 1 posted January 08, 2014 09:18 PM      Profile for Lonny           Edit/Delete Post 
You might get the ball rollin' by looking for a new or used Rem 700 in .17 Rem, 204 or .223. The 700 is common, affordable, and easy for a gunsmith to work with. You could always use that until your ready to start the build.

I'd put a lot of thought into how you want the rifle to handle and pack. Do you walk a lot on an average day calling? Are your shots often longer or up close and personal? You can make all the choices on stock design, barrel length, barrel contour, and overall rifle weight along with if you want SS or Chrome Moly. Hopefully it will all come together and create a perfect rifle just for you and your style of hunting.

Lots of decisions and kind of fun to do, but it can seem a bit overwhelming and money can fly away by the wallet full if you let it.

Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552

Icon 1 posted January 09, 2014 03:44 AM      Profile for the bearhunter           Edit/Delete Post 
good choice for a build Aaron. i too was sceptical about the .17 cal. thing but now with well over 100 coyotes kilt with the 2 i have all i can say is WOW...
I know some (most) here will not believe me and 3 years ago, i would have been in the same boat, but i've seen more bang/flops, face in the dirt dead coyotes with my 17-204's than the hundreds of coyotes i've killed with 22-250's and .243. those are the facts boys. take it how you will.
hell, i don't even bring out the other 2 rifles anymore.
bullet selection IS KEY!!!.
i talked with Chan Nagel 2 weeks and he's hoping to be building bullets in 6-8 months. they are coyote slaying sumbitches [Wink]
member DiYi and i have had Kevin Weaver do our recent smithing.
he likes to use Hi-Tech stocks. i don't have them on mine but DiYi does and they are superbly comfortable. my next build will have one.
Lilja is also my choice. 1/9 twist..
i actually prefer the savage action over the rem.action.
other notable smiths would be Bob Greene or Greg Tannel (sp).
1 year wait time seems to be par for the course.

Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged
DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11

Icon 1 posted January 09, 2014 06:03 AM      Profile for DAA   Author's Homepage   Email DAA         Edit/Delete Post 
Jim, one of the big differences between the .17's I like and a .223, is trajectory. Just run the numbers on point blank range for a 4" target using a bullet with BC of .27 doing 4100 fps vs. any .223 load you want.

Might also be interesting to compare energy downrange, that .27 BC is a 30 gr., 4100 fps, compare it to a 50 or 55 gr. .223 load at 200 yards. You might be surprsied by those numbers.

-----------------------
Edited slightly to not sound quite so much like a .17 honk... I'm really not one to talk anyone into any of this stuff. And, for that matter, haven't used a .17 on coyotes for two years now myself. Going to again soon though, just for fun.

- DAA

[ January 09, 2014, 06:23 AM: Message edited by: DAA ]

--------------------
"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.

Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter

Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977

Icon 1 posted January 09, 2014 07:10 AM      Profile for Kelly Jackson   Email Kelly Jackson         Edit/Delete Post 
Man what a differance a barrel makes on a 17-204.
Last season I had a Shilen crome moly 9 twist chambered 17-204. I called it the 17 paintball as 1/2 the coyotes I shot with it splashed with 30gr Kindler golds. Even pulled the barrel and rechambered to try and remove any of the fried area...No joy. That barrel was then junked.

Fast forward order a 9 twist Lilja and used the same reamer to chamber this barrel. Shot quite a few coytoes with this one and have had the excellant results like you read about. Have had several broadside coyotes that the 30gr passed thru. Still found all the coyotes.
Been selling coyotes on the cobb this year and the buyer really like what he sees from the 17-204...

Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689

Icon 1 posted January 09, 2014 07:27 AM      Profile for jimanaz           Edit/Delete Post 
Those are valid points, Dave. Thanks for the interjection. I guess I was just considering my real world experience (or lack thereof) with that off the shelf rifle, running factory fodder. To be fair, it was a right handed model, and the reach over for a lefty was probably the most aggravating factor. I probably could have never given it a fair shake under those circumstances.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged
Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17

Icon 1 posted January 09, 2014 08:55 AM      Profile for Az-Hunter           Edit/Delete Post 
If guy is patient, you can probably cut your time waiting on a gunsmith in half, as well eliminating those monthly phone calls, where you just know he is gonna bullshit you and leave you aggravated.
Cruise over to the Saubier website, look at their classified section daily, and I'd bet within a month or so, you'll see something close to what your looking for pop up for sale. Those guys love small caliber stuff and are constantly moving new builds to finance future builds.

Posts: 1589 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted January 09, 2014 01:27 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Some damned good input, Aaron. Maybe hundreds of years of actual experience talking to ya.

Good hunting. El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31262 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted January 09, 2014 05:16 PM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Cruise over to the Saubier website, look at their classified section daily, and I'd bet within a month or so, you'll see something close to what your looking for pop up for sale. Those guys love small caliber stuff and are constantly moving new builds to finance future builds.
That's the truth. I've probably sold close to a half dozen 17's, just sold the 17 Mach IV over there.

--------------------
futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Duckdog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3842

Icon 1 posted January 09, 2014 05:38 PM      Profile for Duckdog           Edit/Delete Post 
Kelly, what was the problem with that barrel? Was it new when you chambered it?
I remember all the issues, but I never heard why..?
I've been real happy with my Shilen. Of course, I bought mine because that's what he was selling and the price was right.

I also don't regret going "short" (22") ...it's plenty fast and balances nice.

Posts: 205 | From: Ks | Registered: Jun 2011  |  IP: Logged
jbmartin
Knows what it's all about
Member # 651

Icon 1 posted January 09, 2014 05:54 PM      Profile for jbmartin   Email jbmartin         Edit/Delete Post 
I also agree on bullet selection.
Glad to hear Nagel will be building some, must be some extra jackets hitting the market.

If you already have an AR, you could just have an upper made in 17rem or 17-204.

I would also say that when a 223 should be limited to 150 yards, that is spot on. In my opinion you can double that for a 17rem.

This is who built mine for me. The one I got has a sleeved and tensioned barrel and is very, very accurate.

http://www.stockadegunstocks.com/index.html

Edit: Sorry I forgot the first question about it being a bolt gun after reading the replies. Kevin builds most of his on Savage actions and has a variety of his stocks to choose from. The only thing I would stay away from is an Accu-Trigger. Those and gloves don't play well together sometimes.

JBM

[ January 09, 2014, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: jbmartin ]

Posts: 28 | From: Greeley, CO | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged


All times are Pacific
This topic comprises 7 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Huntmasters



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.0