|
Author
|
Topic: Bill Martz, open invitation
|
turboranger
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3349
|
posted December 22, 2008 02:31 PM
So let me get this straight Peter if a "customer" has all of the sounds on his system but doesn't have access to all of them by normal means because they didn't pay for them then you say they are entitled to them? Is that how you structure your logic? In my industry if I took a Cisco Firewall for example and hacked into the extra features that I didn't pay for, I and/or my company would face huge fines. I too call a spade a spade and a thief a thief. That would be you my friend and that is a fact. Now if Bill has no intention of selling you a system, logic here would say he wouldn't intend on answering your questions as well. Make sense?
Posts: 28 | From: NH and AZ | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted December 22, 2008 03:27 PM
Martin,
But you see, when you buy a WT caller, you do buy the sounds. If you want to buy more, you pay $10 per sound extra. There's no firewall or security breech to tamper with to get your sounds off the WT? Sure it's not designed to be "programmable", that's obvious, but many customers are using the sounds off of their WT callers. Not to distribute or offer for downloads/profit, but to play on other callers. That's not because of anything I've helped them with either. Isn't it a good thing though Turbo that I have a dandy collection of older "programmable" WT callers from which I got my sounds? If you are interested in one, let me know I know a guy selling one.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted December 22, 2008 03:44 PM
Let me float the concept in the music and DVD realm, where they say it is okay to download or copy songs and video for your personal use, but that it is not ethical or legal to sell to others. I believe they call it bootleg copies? Of course, the Chinese violate copyright and trademark laws all the time and reverse engineer many electronic products and never suffer any reprisals, even though they do it for profit. So Dennis Kirk could copy Johnny Stewart machine, or his sounds, for instance and sell for profit and it becomes a civil lawsuit rather than proscuting a thief on a criminal charge. I know that Gerald has said before that he has no objection to duplicating a tape for one's own personal use.
Look at the various spyware, and adware programs that gain access and track virtually every keystroke you make. Are these people guilty of theft, and should the police be arresting them? How many malicious viruses have been traced, those that cause actual harm and have they been arrested and are serving time? I think most of them never get caught and if they do .01% pay restitution. There are a lot of bad guys out there doing real damage.
Is accessing the data from a piece of electronics that you purchased legal, or unethical? I'm guessing what the answer might be, and would some people be tempted to do it, but should we call them a thief, in every sense of the word?
I think Bill should protect his product so that Wookie is unable to figure it out, encription etc. Doesn't Foxpro already do this? Can it be the same as walking away from your car with the windows down, and your wallet (or your gun) on the dash? The bank's ATM doesn't just spring open a little door and tell you to count out what you need, trusting on your honesty, and your ability to count accurately. They count it for you, (and take your picture) is all the further they trust you. Close the loophole, Bill.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31468 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted December 22, 2008 04:22 PM
Leonard,
Those are all good analogies, but there are much more malicious people out there after WT sounds. The Chinese would have the thing hacked and get the original sounds off the thing in a matter of hours I'd wager. I don't own one of the "all in one" type WT's but getting any sound off of a caller is easily doable. I edit and modify most of my sounds into 15 minute calling sequences with varying pitches and volumes. The only way to do that is to get the files into a format I can work with....hence the beauty of the old programmable WT's. Or, if people are able to, they can get them off the new units if they so desire. If it's about making a product to help customers and offer something that calls more animals, why not at least offer to make up some custom sound mixes for customers? It only takes a few minutes to do and does wonders for not having to handle a remote, especially at -30. FoxPro will make up a custom mix if a customer requests, it's not a big deal. Bill can keep at what he's doing by keeping his sounds locked on the new callers, that's fine and it's safe for him to protect his investment that way. It would be nice and lots of customers would be happy though if Bill would make up some sound sequences with more silent spots rather than an almost continuous sound. It's still gotta drive him nuts to think that anybody could get those sounds though.
Thanks for getting the board back up and going Leonard, this is a hoot.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
turboranger
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3349
|
posted December 22, 2008 05:02 PM
Yeah Leonard all of that is pretty correct. Look at the result of things like cookies,trackers, and spam etc. Look at how much easier it would be for the rest of us if those people didn't exist and we didn't have to lock our computers and networks down to the point that it is difficult to function. It cost all of us. Lets look at another example where people steal wildlife do we all suffer? What do we think of them? Once again it cost all of us."Do we call people like this a thief in every sense of the word?" I will let others decide for themselves based on their own levels of moral integrity. The thing about it though is most people that get caught are those that brag about it. With that said when someone braggs you also very quickly learn alot of things about them. For example I now know alot of the reasons why Tundra ask alot of the questions he does and what his motivations are. Funny he still looks for those answers after all of this...For those that interact with him they now know what to expect and at what level to trust him. For me I stated what I think of the guy and that still stands.
He says I should:
quote:
Use your brain for structuring logical things and think outside the box once in awhile, it'll get you farther in life.
Would I get ahead in life by trying to rip others off?
[ December 22, 2008, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: turboranger ]
Posts: 28 | From: NH and AZ | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
turboranger
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3349
|
posted December 22, 2008 05:13 PM
Excuse the duplicate post not sure what happened there ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 28 | From: NH and AZ | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
CCP
Knows what it's all about
Member # 913
|
posted December 22, 2008 05:14 PM
A friend of mine was able to make me a program to read and convert my FXP files so I can use them on my other callers. Of course the sounds are for my personal use and not for sale. Now I am able to edit them in my Adobe programs.
If I am reading this right we can send the WT to you and you can install our sounds we bought elsewhere (FXP) onto the WT?
Next question I know it would be illegal for me to sale the sounds.(copyright laws) Now would it be illegal for me to sale the program that converts the files?
Reason I ask is if it is not illegal for you to alter the WT to extract the sounds you paid for to use for editing and putting on other callers. Then It should not be illegal for me to alter to extract the FXP sounds for my personal use to edit and play on other callers.
Still my biggest question is it legal for me to sale the program and market it. I believe it would be a great tool for someone wanting to use the sounds without having to buy the dang caller. It would be for there personal use and be basically under the same guide lines of what is being done to the WT at your shop.
Posts: 117 | From: SouthEastern united states | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted December 22, 2008 05:19 PM
That's funny. If you are trying to get around the censored word list, instead of writing "sale" you might want to do it this way: $ells.
It's an old program with a few bugs. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31468 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
csmithers
unknown comic
|
posted December 22, 2008 06:07 PM
Page 4 is my favorite. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
What is a WT?
Who are Turboranger, tundrawookie and Bill Martz. What day is this?
Would the 10 Eichelberger Pup work on fox out to 100 yards? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I actually had to look up trebuchet... good stuff.
[ December 22, 2008, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted December 22, 2008 06:37 PM
Turbo,
I believe if you look up the definition of Stealing, it will read: To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
Herein lies your problem. My, read that MY old programmable WT callers, are not anybody elses. They're paid for by me for me. Putting the sounds on my computer, which is also paid for by me for my own use in no way constitutes stealing. Please let me know how that's incorrect? Now, if I was selling or had a download website for these sounds, I could see you claiming I stole them, but not from where I stand. I'm sure WT hates the fact that they made a caller years ago with the ability to program and remove sounds from. Not my problem, I'm glad I have a large base of friends who keep their eyes opened for them and let me know whenever anybody is selling one.
Don't worry about trusting me Turbo, if you need your WT fixed you can send it to me too and I'll help you out. But then again, you're in pretty tight with Martz, so you better just send it there as the shipping is cheaper. People trust me plenty, just ask around outside your small circle of WT owning friends.
CCP,
Here's the answer to your question.
quote:
Still my biggest question is it legal for me to sale the program and market it. I believe it would be a great tool for someone wanting to use the sounds without having to buy the dang caller. It would be for there personal use and be basically under the same guide lines of what is being done to the WT at your shop.
If you don't own the caller, you shouldn't have the sounds correct? What good does having FXP files do without the caller? Make sense? How else would you receive the sound-files without having the caller, other than by some illegal type of activity? So no, you couldn't just sell that program for people who have illegal sound files to begin with. As far as what goes on at my "shop", don't worry yourself, I'm not "cracking" or "hacking" WT soundfiles. I'm customizing old WT's into a different configuration and fixing old units. But trust me, there is a large number of WT owners that want to know how to get "their" sounds off of the callers. The best answer.....Get the old programmable unit. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
If you read the original post that started the WT bandwagon going here, it was a QUESTION about doing it....Here it is if anybody forgot
quote:
Bill, would you like if I posted a detailed photo showing all of your customers how to get every sound off of those units?
Please Note that it's a QUESTION. Not a statement claiming to have done it, so calm yourselves down and take the meds.
If I'm going to be physically threatened by Martz, which is what he is insinuating and has claimed on the phone, you proud WT defenders better be ready for a drag out brawl and to see a never ending thorn in WT's side pointing out every lie and deceit. Do you think that's wrong of me to do if me or my family is threatened by Bill Martz? You WT guys need to really look at who you're trying to defend in this argument. You three/four are definitely a minority when it comes to liking the man. If asking a bunch of technical questions is all it takes to get this guy wound up, it'll be really fun in person.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
turboranger
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3349
|
posted December 22, 2008 06:55 PM
Funny Peter how you can spin all of that from this which you conveniently left part off in your last post.
quote:
Bill, would you like if I posted a detailed photo showing all of your customers how to get every sound off of those units? It's really simple and maybe a post that would get pinned at the top of every forum that has an e-caller section. There are several moderators at various forums who would love to put up something like that. I could even sell the hardware and a DVD Tutorial on how to do it.
Special note on this part and this is a statement.
quote:
I could even sell the hardware and a DVD Tutorial on how to do it.
Then you tell CCP
quote:
So no, you couldn't just sell that program for people who have illegal sound files to begin with.
So which is it Peter you can or can't do it? Why can you sell the stuff but CCP can't?
Edit:
Almost forgot this juicy piece.
quote:
Now, if I was selling or had a download website for these sounds, I could see you claiming I stole them.
quote:
It's really simple and maybe a post that would get pinned at the top of every forum that has an e-caller section. There are several moderators at various forums who would love to put up something like that. I could even sell the hardware and a DVD Tutorial on how to do it.
Seems pretty close to me??
[ December 22, 2008, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: turboranger ]
Posts: 28 | From: NH and AZ | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
CCP
Knows what it's all about
Member # 913
|
posted December 22, 2008 07:14 PM
TundraWookie I do have Foxpro callers and several other brand callers.
You can purchase the sounds off of foxpro's site they send them to my e-mail. I liked two of the FXP sounds that came on my caller when I bought it. I had a friend make a program so I could extract them and put them on one of my other brand callers.
I know several others that have foxpro callers with these sounds and would like to keep there sounds when they sell there caller. Problem is they can not use the sounds on the other brand callers because of the FPX format. I will not sell or give them my sounds because it would be wrong.
So would it be legal for me to sell them the software to convert there legally owned FXP files to something they can use? If you don't know the answer it is fine. Just thought you might know.If it is not legal to sell the software I will just use it for my personal use.
I use several different e-callers and several different hand calls to hunt with I have no brand loyalty when I hunt. I use what is best for the setup Iam on at the time.
Posts: 117 | From: SouthEastern united states | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
|
posted December 22, 2008 07:26 PM
I just got in on the fun and have the following to say:
Lenonard: CUDOS for permitting everyone to have a fair shot at this rather lively discussion. It has truly been a very good read that I would never see on leg humping PMs.
Bill Mantz: Your CS skills are something to be desired, but desite your lack of people skills, I am going to buy one of your callers before next season. I've heard from several WT owners that they like your caller. With your new product line, you are now much more competitive. This season is almost over for me because of other reponsiblities, so I won't bother to purchase one right now.
I just recently bought a Foxpro Scorpion because I got it at almost 1/2 off. It has called 3 coyotes, and one bobcat in the last month. It works. I still want a WT however.
As per my understanding of the copy right laws. If you own an original piece of work such as a record, a cd, a foxpro caller or a WT caller. The sounds on that unit are yours to modify to play on whatever you want. You bought and paid the royalties when you purchased the record or cd or electronic caller. As long as you own the original source of these sounds(eg, wt caller or foxpro caller) you can modify and play them on whatever sound source you wish. In other words, if you buy a foxpro or wt caller, and rip the sounds off that caller, you can legally install those sounds on a boombox if you wish to call in critters as long as you own the original sound source. This issue came up a long time ago when teenagers would take LPs and turn the music into Cassette tapes. Of course many of you younger than 30 may not no what the hell I'm talking about when I use words like LP and Cassette.
--------------------
Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1926 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted December 22, 2008 07:28 PM
Turbo,
If I sold a DVD and hardware to do it, that would mean that the person would actually have to have the WT unit, not just a bunch of sound-files that they could have illegally obtained via email/download etc. Are you with me on this one? A software program sold to a person who illegally possesses the sound files since they supposedly don't own a FoxPro is an entire different story. Do you see what I am saying here Turbo? Owners of a WT using something to get the sounds off vs. Illegal sounds that somebody possesses is a different scenario isn't it? That is the example that CCP questioned, so I'm answering it. If I explain to somebody how to get their sounds off of a WT, is it illegal Turbo? I have no clue what a person will do with that information once they know how to do it. As an example if I posted a hack for your Cisco Server/Firewall and emailed it to somebody, is it illegal? Or does it become illegal once somebody implements the program? Or if I just hinted the notion of how to do it and let it go from there...would I be guilty? I'll be sure to keep this "top secret" under wraps though since the sound police will be watching me from now on though. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
But I guess you still think Martz threatening to come here to harm me and or my family is justified huh? I'm gonna call spade on that one if you think that's even somewhat legit. You're good at snappy answers, but please let me know where you stand on threats to people on a public forum. Don't try to slip this question by claiming my question "threat" about sound file removal and a DVD with hardware to moderators at forums. I'm not selling anything or turning a profit...it's just a fun hobby isn't it? Fun for me anyways helping other hunters improve their older WT units so it's more user friendly and durable in the field. Hard to believe I can get the owner of a company so spun up by asking questions about their products in a free country isn't it?
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
browning204
Knows what it's all about
Member # 821
|
posted December 22, 2008 07:52 PM
It is illegal to copy and distribute DVD movies or so the FBI says at the beginning of each movie. BUT, it is perfectly legal to walk into any store and buy DVD copying software. Why? to make a back-up of your own legally obtained "information"
In Massachusetts it is ok to have Weed, but not rolled or broken down into little baggies. Again, you may have it but do not try to distribute it.
I think the same might apply to sounds, you bought them therefore own them and may do as you wish but as soon as you pass them around, that is the kicker.
Posts: 167 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted December 22, 2008 07:52 PM
CCP,
I honestly do not know the answer to that question. But I'll contact FoxPro and see what they have to say about it. I can guarantee that I'll get an honest, sincere answer though. You probably already know that though since you own a FoxPro and have probably had good customer service with them.
Another question for sound guru's or copyright law attorneys would be this. What if somebody simply recorded the sound coming out of the speaker into their computer to use on another device? Of course, it'd be a crummy quality, but still a legitimate question. Where do we draw the line in terms of recording the sound (at the processor, speaker, flash media...etc.)? Then, where do you draw the line in terms of who does the recordings? If somebody sends me their caller to record their sounds (I don't) but hypothetical question...is it legal? If what Aznative has posted is correct, it really doesn't matter does it?
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
turboranger
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3349
|
posted December 22, 2008 08:32 PM
Tundra so I went back through the post and I could only find where Bill said he was going to come up to Alaska next year to visit you. I looked a couple times but really can't find the verbage of where he is threatening physical harm to you or your family. I did see where he responded back to you about only threatening those that deserve it but again the only thing I see that he said he was going to do was come visit you. Now I would think that a strapping young feller from Alaska wouldn't be too afraid of a wrinkly old bastard like Bill ![[Cool]](cool.gif) coming to say hello. It would be a curious thing to see if your demeanor would change with him face to face. It is one thing to say all that BS on here but face to face thats much different. Like I stated before I don't need to stick up for Ol' Bill as he is plenty capable. Anyway all of that is settling things like real men and I am ok with that. The moral of this is don't say anything to someone you couldn't say to their face. It looks like he is prepared to but are you? Now as far as this other stuff it comes down to ethics and that is where I hate to say it but behavior like that does earn you the nick name "skinny diminutive weasel" that Bill annointed you with.
[ December 22, 2008, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: turboranger ]
Posts: 28 | From: NH and AZ | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted December 22, 2008 09:29 PM
TurboRanger,
The phone conversation with the threat was wonderfully led into with a lot of cussing and hostility. Trust me, he doesn't want to come to have coffee and eat salmon. I'm not worried about dealing with what you call that "man" anytime anywhere though. I'll say everything and ask everything I have on this forum to Bills face, or the phone. If my questions poke into tender areas, that's too bad. If he shows up at my house and is looking for me and talks to my wife using any foul language or rude comments, he'll probably just end up behind bars though as I'd feel bad hurting the old guy. My guess though is he'd probably have 2 or 3 guys (cameraman, audio mic guy..whoever) and simply try to outnumber me. It doesn't really matter though, it'll all be recorded for authorities and I'll probably end up having to sell you WT sounds one day.
Turbo, I've got you pinned to a tee now that I can see you'll stand up for a guy that'll even insinuate a threat to a man or his family. You can PM me or email me if you want to discuss this one further TurboNut, I'm done dealing with you.
You're probably getting half of this stuff direct from Martz anyways, so there's no use trying to let you know what a great guy he is. Again, if you need any work on your WT, I'm here 4 ya.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
turboranger
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3349
|
posted December 23, 2008 08:55 AM
"TurboNut" Now that has a nice ring to it don't you think? I like it
The shame of this whole thing is this. Playstations, computers etc. often times put "removal of the tag voids warranty" labels on their products. It stops people from one damaging the electronics with ESD or two simply breaking something. It also stops stuff like this from happening. Legal or not legal its all debatable. Unethical its not much of a debate. A simple tag like that or a check of the flash card to see if someone has hacked it and thus voiding their warranty would put a stop to all of this business. How many of us would want to void the warranty on such an expensive toy just to take bad advice from a bonehead? I guess folks could send them to Tundra for repair as he seems to think he is pretty smart and is apparently a repair shop. Doesn't matter what vendor you are its scum like this that make it difficult for you and cost the rest of us.
On the other side of the coin I fully recognize that this stuff happens all of the time in pretty much everything today. It's one thing to quietly back up your stuff etc. However to get on one of these boards and threaten the owner of a company with doing it and helping others do it just to ruffle him up...thats pure stupidity! There is an old saying that if you stir mud alot of times you'll get shit. I learned that from my x-wife now that was a mean woman! ![[Mad]](mad.gif) <---My-X.
Posts: 28 | From: NH and AZ | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted December 23, 2008 11:41 AM
The type of WT's I have typically fixed and modified for people are the older, programmable models. The reason that people come to me is simple. They will get back their programmable unit and it'll work. I don't try to change out their caller with a new, non-programmable unit. When a person paid for and bought X model and is capable of programming the thing themselves, they want to keep that same model. There is no "upgrade" in getting back the non-programmable unit to the user. The old FRS remotes are another thing that are in constant need of repair which I've helped customers with. I don't make any money doing it, it's just a hobby and I like helping hunters with the tools they need.
I hope you all have a great Christmas and Happy New Years.
Thanks Leonard for getting your forum back up and running.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TheHunt
PAKMAN
Member # 3450
|
posted May 31, 2009 07:26 PM
I am just a hunter looking for an ecaller. So I do not have a dog in this fight. But as an intelligent consumer I look at the PM, F&F, a few other sites,and here as great information as to the calls I would be interested in purchasing. I am just a hunter looking for a good call that I can use for the next five to ten years. I thought you might want a customer’s view of this argument. This is my opinion and my first post on this site.
1. Peter’s emphasis is about gathering as much information he can get from Bill. But Peter loves the WT sounds and having internet support from people who like to watch a train wreck. I categorize many of those posts as they got something for their support or they truly believe they have the best call on the market.
2. Bill has a company he is defending. Most people have no idea all the effort it takes to run a business. Any information that Bill provides Peter and anyone else could be used against his company.
3. If Bill verbally abused me when I initially called him at the initial contact regarding the call. I would not buy from him, period! I can get that from my wife;-) I am assuming that he only acts this way when he does not like someone. I have not called any company yet as I need to build my Pros/Cons list off of my requirements. I would need to find someone who lives near me who would have one of the calls that make my top three calls to that I could listen to them preferably side by side.
4. The best sound’s on the market from reading the threads is WT. If the sounds did not deliver no one would pay any attention to WT and Bill would be out of business.
5. Peter does have some good design questions but if I were Bill I would be very selective what to answer and how I answered it because that information is his company’s competitive advantage and would be considered as trade secrets.
6. FoxPro and WT are pushing each other. This is good for me the consumer. I now have a multitude of calls to select from. The consumer wins in this scenario. I can tell you from my perspective that the sounds are one of the higher weighted criteria when one is building a Pos/Con list against the different calls. If they were not then Peter and most of the others would not be so aggressive.
Peter posted a list of items one should consider when buying a call. Some of those are customer service, trust of the company you are buying from… Well I can tell you with the internet one can put the documented events and smoke a company in short order. Do the BBB, call the state attorney general, etc. Some hunters think that any product they buy should be fixed at the company’s expense even if it is the hunters fault. Hunting is hard on equipment so one needs to see what was posted on these sites and who posted it to determine the real deal on the customer service.
Thank you for letting Bill post. I have had a heck of a time finding very many posts from him. Thanks for letting me join this group.
Posts: 1 | From: Washington State | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted May 31, 2009 08:29 PM
Welcome to The New Huntmasters, TheHunt. Glad to have you on board.
Yeah, Bill Martz has always been welcome here, he knows it. Occasionally we read something of value, sometimes not. If he would just lock himself in a room without a phone or a computer, and let somebody else do his P.R. work, he'd be a lot better off.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31468 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
browning204
Knows what it's all about
Member # 821
|
posted June 04, 2009 06:17 PM
Bill has always been good to me and I have not spent more money on his stuff than anyone else, so it ain't a money thing.
Every time we talk I get more than my fair share of info on critters, electronics and whatever poop we decide to talk about.
Peter and Clevenger might have a different story but have you ever tried to read some of these people posting about what a "mean person" Bill has been to them? Come on, some of these guys can't even structure a sentence better than my 2 year old and they want to call and talk electronics and give advice to a person who runs a business. I wouldn't want to answer the phone and do the dance either!
Posts: 167 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted June 04, 2009 07:01 PM
OMG! Clevenger and Martz don't get along? What about Redfrog and Carey? Lenbo and JohnHenry?
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31468 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
browning204
Knows what it's all about
Member # 821
|
posted June 04, 2009 08:30 PM
Don't know anything about Lenbo and John Henry.
Maybe they need a play date or something?
Posts: 167 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
