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Author Topic: What NOT to do
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7

Icon 1 posted August 24, 2020 05:57 AM      Profile for Cdog911   Author's Homepage   Email Cdog911         Edit/Delete Post 
Alright guys, as part of the night hunting project success, I told the admin at the group that pushed for this Facebook page that I would put together a quick but comprehensive piece on pitfalls and errors that can be made by someone new to hunting at night. No better place to ask this than right here. We will be under a microscope by people looking for us to fuck this up. You guys have hunted a lot at night and probably seen ppl make some pretty stupid mistakes. Tell me about those errors and how to avoid them. The more the better.

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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.

Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted August 24, 2020 08:42 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I'll have to think about it, but little different from daylight hunting. Avoid windy conditions and watch your six. Night hunting is where misting is effective, bc on day stands, it's mostly a waste of time.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31339 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted August 24, 2020 12:43 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
I have NOT done a lot of night hunting so take this for what it's worth;
Try driving your planned route in the daylight flagging your 'park here' spots and your 'call from here' stands. Make note of buildings & such in the distance. If you're going to be under a microscope you may want to keep a written log of where stands were made and the direction shots were fired. Sound can do strange things at night and the LAST thing that you want is somebody a mile away seeing your lights, hearing a baby being killed and knowing that you were shooting at them.
I would also suggest that you keep a copy of your new law handy. You may know that hunting at night is now legal but the Sheriff who has to track down the guy killing babys and shooting at houses may not have gotten the memo.
Cover your ass with both hands and keep foreign objects out of there........ You know what happens to fat old men in prison. [Wink]

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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 7513 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 4 posted August 24, 2020 01:49 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
ko ko, what you suggest has probably been tried many times, but. Proving somebody had the means and had possibly been in the area, and relating it to an incident is a tall order for a DA. It is such that I wouldn't lose any sleep over. It's just part of the paranoia involved with those that think every light and every gunshot is an indication of some sort of poaching.

I am aware of an incident that happened between 15 and 20 years ago. There was an "OP" Observation Post set up in San Diego or Imperial County by a military unit and these guys were predator hunting after dark along a two track. They were observed by the members of the stakeout and the purpose was drug interdiction.

It was a shameful situation, and I'm ashamed to admit that I am somewhat acquainted with the "folks" that fired the shot. The observer was watching them swing a red light and perhaps thought they were directing an aircraft but the guy picked up the reflection of the binoculars and assumed he was looking at a predators eyes and his partner fired a shot.

They did several things that were uncalled for, including leaving without investigating the "quarry". So, not knowing that they had shot somebody, they came back down the same road several hours later and ran into a roadblock and after that, everything got very murky.

Whoever they shot wasn't killed but there was much recriminations and they were never charged....except by me; FOR GROSS STUPIDITY! It was the damnedest clusterfuck by everyone involved, including the agency, which was never identified.

It's just so basic! You must identify your target, day or night and this is the worst behavior by night hunters, ie: shooting at eyes! That deal pisses me off every time I think about it!

But, I think we can conclude something, at least. Be careful, and make damned sure of what you are shooting at. But, draw no inferences. It ain't that way and done right, it's very safe.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ August 24, 2020, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31339 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7

Icon 1 posted August 24, 2020 01:50 PM      Profile for Cdog911   Author's Homepage   Email Cdog911         Edit/Delete Post 
Excellent, Koko. LOL. I'm looking mainly for safety issues to avoid any preventable accidents, whether that's injury, property, perceived property. KOKO went there and I definitely like the idea of carrying a small copy of the law. Just in case.

Interestingly, LB, I got hit almost immediately by the "night calling is a different kinda critter than day calling" on FB. I presume it is and being in the dark will certainly allow me to set up a lot of my best spots in ways that just won't work in the light of day. But my response was straight up.

You have often referred to your experiences calling here and a huge part of that is dog wagons. I was told that I would regret the impact of night hunting on calling because more ppl would be out there taking my spots, but to me, the huge trade off is that I will have a time of day available to me that cannot be ruined by a 4 wheel drive truck blowing right thru the middle of my stand. Being able to hunt at night will level the field for us callers who are forced to share acres with the dog wagons. That is a game changer for us and the biggest victory here of all.

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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.

Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted August 24, 2020 02:01 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Lance, I don't think you would taint an area, as much as you might think. I could go back down the same road in the opposite direction, come sun up, and hunt the same, and wouldn't feel like I was wasting my time.

I am confused about dog wagons? I've never even seen one. I don't understand?

The suggestion to plot out your night calling stands by scouting them in the day time is a good one. Actually, in many ways, you can see more, as far as hazards at night.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ August 24, 2020, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31339 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7

Icon 1 posted August 24, 2020 02:30 PM      Profile for Cdog911   Author's Homepage   Email Cdog911         Edit/Delete Post 
I posted a pic a long time back of one of the dog wagons in my area. Kansas has a lot of them and even more when coyote prices are up.

Your basic dog wagon is a four wheel drive truck or, more recently, a UTV side by side, either with a flat bed upon which is mounted a large dog box with spring loaded doors on either side. Each dog box (truck) carries 4-5 greyhound (mixes) with a team consisting of take down dogs and kill or throat dogs. Take down dogs are racing stock that can outrun, catch up to and roll up a coyote. Throat dogs are often a mix of greyhound, wolfhound, staghound and I've even seen part great dane/ timber wolf and they naturally take to grabbing the coyote by the throat once the take down dogs have rolled it up.

There is a cable that runs thru a series of pulleys into the cab of the truck that allows the driver to pull the cable and the doors drop down so the dogs can bail out.

The system is where the trucks all circle a section of ground taking position where they have a commanding view, and one of them will then drive into the section and run out all the cover while the others spot for coyotes trying to escape. When a coyote is spotted, everyone uses radios to take chase and, if lucky, one of the wagons will get "a race" on the coyote where they drive across open country to catch up to the fleeing coyote. The greyhounds- all sight dogs - know what's going on and you'll see them all with their heads out of the holes in the dog box doors watching the coyote and waiting to be released. Once close enough, the wagon driver will then brake hard and once slowed down to fairly slow, will pull the cables, the doors drop, the dogs bail out and the race is on. As soon as the dogs clear, the driver then floors his gas pedal and tries to keep up. Other wagons will also close in in case they need a relief pack to join in.

It sounds brutal, and it sounds fun. It's both. I prefer to call. Dog wagons cover dozens of miles a day with what amounts to a scorched earth program. They don't bump out every coyote and they don't kill near what they flush. What they most certainly do is make the area coyotes extremely nervous at coming out in the light of day for ANYTHING. Which, in simple terms, really puts the cabosh on calling in the daytime.

This past season, I was calling a big hay field and my cell dinged. A buddy was giving me the heads up that a dog wagon and a side by side UTV with a dog wagon on it had just illegally entered that section and to stay low. I watched them come over a hill about 1/4 mile away tracking near me. They'd come by my truck to come in. Within about a hundred yards, they started firing a .22 pistol into the area around me. I yelled. They continued shooting. Guess they couldn't hear me. That pissed me off, so I stood, waved my hand, and put five AR rounds right cross the road in front of them, then waved one finger some more. They heard that. Game warden got my report soon thereafter. He hates those guys.

Dog wagons = shitty calling. The big ones in my areas are using big bucks. One uses a '18 Ford F150 Raptor with all new customized aluminum treadplate and blue flatbed and dog box. They also use a side by side with a small dog box big enough to carry two dogs. Next time they shoot at me, I go for the dog's head hanging out. Landowner told me to get 'em.

Edit- I had to remove the link to the video because it was making it difficult for me to see all the comments on the original inquiry.

[ August 30, 2020, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]

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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.

Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177

Icon 1 posted August 25, 2020 03:50 AM      Profile for earthwalker           Edit/Delete Post 
We have dog wagons here in central Idaho.
You can't have a dog anywhere around calling or to sneak off the road One whine from a dog and the coyotes are flat out gone.

Haven't night hunted at all. But there has been good ideas posted already.

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another long hot smoky summer coming

Posts: 1104 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted August 25, 2020 06:41 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I watched Lance's link and then there was another one about 16 coyotes, by Lucky Duck Callers. It was in Arizona, strictly daylights and the terrain looked very familiar to me. All well and good but the whole thing, twenty some minutes irked the hell out of me. And, I'll tell you why.

Every time they dumped a coyote there was extensive laughs and giggles. You would think they were pulling the wings off of flies, or something? They were having too much "Frat Boy" type of grab ass FUN. I might have killed more coyotes than the whole crew put together but I can't remember ever having a LOL moment like these dudes? To me, it seems degrading and even disgraceful. Hannibal Lector type of satisfaction, paired with some Flavo Beans. I was never into the "High Fives" either, maybe a thumbs up for rolling a coyote heading flat out for the hills, but damned little celebration of the kill for it's own sake. To me, it makes me think about Charlie Manson or The Golden State Killer. It's just a little too crude to be yucking it up over a dead coyote. Killing a coyote is both routine and a big fucking deal rolled into one.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31339 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted August 25, 2020 07:44 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Totally agree.
When the non-hunting or the anti-hunting public sees antics like that it makes us all look demented.

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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 7513 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted August 27, 2020 10:35 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Something that you need to be constantly aware of, hunting at night with a light. The problem of being back lit with any kind of moon phase besides a new moon. It's amazing how much movement can be detected by an animal just by ambient natural moonlight. As probably a lot of you know, even on a very dark night with high pressure, many times you can drive for hours with no headlights, guided by starlight. Under those conditions, no, a coyote won't probably see you, unless movement reveals you. But you would be surprised at how much you stand out with the moon backlighting you. If you have no movement, chances are good that the predator will be kinda blinded trying to pick you out with a low silhouette moon shining at them. It's frequently unlucky for you to have the moon behind the animal because that tends to literally flood your form and why you should wear black hat and clothing and keep your movements to a minimum.

It always helps if you can put yourself in front of a tree, the same way you would use a bush behind you in the daytime.

Anyway, be very aware that you aren't invisible at night and that a coyote or a cat can see (WAG) 5 or 6 times better at night than you can. One thing in your favor is that a coyote isn't scrutinizing the source of the distress sound when he is on his approach from way out there. One of the things that you discover right away is that a coyote almost always will circle downwind. You don't see a lot of this in the daytime, but the eyes give them away, at night. So, there might be pauses in the approach and this is when he is studying the situation very carefully before he decides to proceed, either to continue his circling as he closes the distance, or he might decide to forget getting your wind and come in on a string....if your sound is convincing enough.

Here is where I would stress the use of the magic mist, if the coyote continues to go downwind. As I have said before, (hundreds of times, in fact), that the mist is the only thing that will hold a coyote for a few precious seconds, allowing you to get a shot off, if you are prepared! When he gets exactly downwind, if you have not been misting, it won't do you any good to start when he gets downwind because you won't ever see him again. People are so hard headed about this method! You have to get that scent out there painting the terrain, the rocks and the bushes with your urine mixture ahead of time so that when he crosses it, it is literally like hitting a wall of scent that is like a physical thing.

Here's the last piece of advice about misting with scent, any concoction you come up with. I don't mist in the daytime, at all. But, it's important at night and I always mist. It's worth doing. You are bound to screw up while you figure it out but it's a learning curve that will pay off.

Okay, last advice for sure: make every attempt to kill that animal before he gets downwind because your primary objective is not to get him downwind. Only in spite of your efforts, he stubbornly continues toward downwind, at least you did your best to kill him before he attained his goal. If he manages to get downwind, the misting is your only "ace in the hole", and it's only good for one careful shot before he's gone for good.

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31339 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7

Icon 1 posted August 30, 2020 09:28 AM      Profile for Cdog911   Author's Homepage   Email Cdog911         Edit/Delete Post 
Follow up ? LB.

Until now, my night hunting has all been done under a moon with snow on the ground. I've never taken the chance of being seen and have always worn the same snow cammies that I would wear in the daytime. I've even lost a few perfect shot opportunities because I didn't white my rifle and the coyote would nail me when I went to reposition my rifle and sticks for the shot. Built me a pair of white sticks for that purpose and bought white vet wrap for my rifle, despite such an opportunity being presented maybe once a year, at best.

So, you say to wear a black hat and black clothes. In your experience, has that ever made you stand out against a natural background of tall grass or other backing? Would it be advisable for the callers to wear their normal camos so that they still blend into their backing? A coyote's eyes are evolved to see movement so I'm concerned that being outfitted in a color different than that in which you're sitting in front of might make movement more visible, even at night. I can see a lot of guys who have never called at night laughing at someone in cammies at night. "After all, man, it's dark!" Well, it's human dark and that's a whole 'nother deal than coyote dark.

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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.

Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted October 31, 2020 08:15 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Hmm? Well, I haven't spent a huge amount of time pondering what to wear, with the focus being, does the coyote see me? Generally, I dress for cold, and hardly ever wear camo at night. I don't see it as a negative, it's just that I have two duffels, one full of various camo and the other full of long johns and watch caps and ski gloves, or described another way, as I just did, stuff for cold weather.

I wouldn't give a man a "fail" if he chose to wear camo at night, and the places I hunt are not really a winter wonderland. Nevada can be as cold as a well digger's ass, but the snow on the ground will generally be scattered.

The only place I ever remember wearing white in the daytime was north of Prince Albert, wolf hunting. What it is, actually is a white nylon shell parka type of thing that covers your primary clothing and is Canadian Army war surplus and available anywhere for about twenty bucks, Canadian.

If you are getting busted, (at night) when moving your shooting sticks, I think you have your caller sitting right next to you, or if hand calling, you are doing too much of it. My attitude is to not be the focus of attention, so in setting your caller 20 feet, 20 yards in front is enough to change the animal's focus from me, to the prey sound; or coyote sounds, same difference. Making slow, deliberate movements while positioning stuff like shooting sticks has very seldom busted me....except perhaps when you have multiples approaching.

But then, you have the free thinkers that never bother with any kind of concealment clothing, so they wear plaid flannel and blue jeans, and top it off with a Stetson. I'm looking at you, Tex!

Half way up the landing on the stairs, if you were to visit here, you would see my very authentic (Canadian Indian made) snowshoes. Sort of a souvenir, these days, but I like having them there, rather than stuffed in some closet. Other than the far north, I just don't have much advice on wintertime calling, in snowbound conditions. Sounds brutal, to me? You must be really motivated?

Good hunting. El Bee

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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 31339 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged


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