The New Huntmastersbbs!


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The New Huntmastersbbs!   » Predator Hunting   » A dog's nose? (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: A dog's nose?
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted May 22, 2020 08:28 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I have been thinking about this for a while now. Ever since I got this pup. Tillie turned one year old, last week and she's as green as they come.

Anyway, I am wondering about ability. Can a dog, maybe one of a breed that is used for trailing, can we judge their nose along with a coyote? It's hard to understate, or underestimate the ability of a coyote. They do everything well. For that matter, can a hound run down a coyote? Maybe one built like Tillie could? She has that deep Greyhound type chest and she just naturally runs like a damned deer!

Also, as a scent hound, can she detect smells as faint as can a coyote? Again, the bar is set pretty doggone high, because the coyote is such a versatile animal, does many things well.

I don't know? I always sort of judged a dog by it's ability to pull scent out of the air with it's head up instead of running with it's nose skimming the ground. Tillie does tend to stick her nose into something, but I also notice that she can smell peanut butter as soon as the jar is opened, no matter where she is.

So, where does a dog stack up against a coyote, one on one? Is the coyote faster? is their nose more keen? Is their hearing more acute? Can the average hound whip a coyote, one on one?

What say you?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: I just happened to think, we have an x member, "he who shall not be named" who does monitor this site, and is sure to have an opinion. Mainly because that's what he does, is run coyotes, mainly with his dogs. As I understand, he enjoys the dogs hunting the coyotes and doesn't make a lot of stands any more, so he might have an opinion worth considering. As for the rest of us, jump in here and give us the benefit of your half baked theories, it costs you nothing.

[ May 22, 2020, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted May 22, 2020 10:10 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
$0.02 worth. Anything a domestic dog can do, a coyote can do better.
Exceptions to the rule, yes, but over-all ......

Hi " [Smile] ".

--------------------
When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5843 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177

Icon 1 posted May 22, 2020 04:00 PM      Profile for earthwalker           Edit/Delete Post 
A greyhound can catch coyotes.
Don't believe a hound can unless it's a rare lightly built hound.
On an overall a coyotes nose is better give or take a little except for a blood hound.
You know it all depends on the dog and it's grit how the dog has been trained and conditioned. Coyotes are use to fighting to make a living. Dogs are very domesticated.

Coyotes 2
Dogs 1

--------------------
You are never lost if you don't care where you're at.

Send rain and snow please! Send Lots of RAIN!
No lightning please

Posts: 735 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted May 23, 2020 08:04 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, forgot about chasing coyotes with Greyhounds! But, really, except for her ears holding her back, Tillie is no slouch, I believe she could catch a coyote. What she would do with him once she caught him, I'm not sure if she has the grit that fighting for her life provides?

Now, ko ko says " [Smile] " anything a coyote can do....let me start over; anything a dog can do, a coyote can do better. Well, okay, that covers a lot of Brittany's and German Shepards, but I think there might be a lot of coonhounds that can run down a coyote. Everybody, including me thinks a coyote can run five miles without breaking a sweat. If a hound was in training, I believe she could keep up if not grab Mr Coyote by the scruff within the first 1/2 mile.

I know the professional dog trainers for DEA have these little bottles of scent. They immobilize a dog, (somehow) and cover their head and wave one of these bottles under his/her nose. The dog that still reacts to bottle #5 are the ones they train to detect at the border. And, they are hard to fool. So, I imagine, there are a lot of rejects, it takes an exceptional nose to work in that drug detection business.

Of course, I also heard that they cheat on those dogs, they are all deliberately drug addicts, and this is what they focus on. I heard this from a friend that used to hunt down in Baja, and some of the things he said were more than a little scary.

Hearing? Who's to say? I'm pretty sure that I have called coyotes that were at least a couple miles away, depending on wind currents, etc. The factor that is difficult to quantify is the ultrahigh frequency's. I dabbled with that stuff years ago and never reached firm conclusions as to worth. But, sitting a stand and playing frequencies that only a dog or a coyote could hear does not mean that the animal is interested....yeah, he hears it but so what? He probably won't respond. The closest you can come is to get recordings of voles maybe being terrorized by a cat, not killed, as a cat is sometimes guilty of.

Anyway, a damned coyote is hard to beat, but can a dog keep up? That's what puzzles me.

Who else?

Good hunting. El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17

Icon 1 posted May 23, 2020 10:24 AM      Profile for Az-Hunter           Edit/Delete Post 
Wish Brent would chime in on this one, he has probably seen more dog/coyote interaction than anyone I know. He has had some that would shake a coyote to death like a rag doll, and others that were fine coyote dogs, just timid in the fighting with one. I'd think a hounds nose was better than a coyotes, but that's just logic, being the nose is bigger meaning more receptors possibly? I'd Hazard hearing and eyesight to be damned similar?
Posts: 1493 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted May 23, 2020 10:35 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, I was saying 'Hi' to he who's name shalt not be spoken.

My point about coyotes is that, yes, a breed of domestic dog might have a better nose and another breed of domestic dog might have better legs and still another breed might be a better fighter but over-all the coyote is the complete package. Add intelligence and adaptability and the coyote wins by a wide margin.

--------------------
When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5843 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted May 23, 2020 01:45 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, well, I wouldn't casually go that far, ko ko. Yes, because of selective breeding we have fast dogs and dogs with a keen nose, and we have pit bulls, for which I wouldn't give you a plugged nickel. We have Rhodes Scholars dogs. I know for a fact that my mom and dad's toy poodle could pull a specific toy from her box, as asked, and never make a mistake, and she had 100 toys. You try that one some time when you get to thinking your dog is pretty smart with commands.

Now, maybe we have Super coyotes? I am inclined to think I have run in to a few, over the years. But, most of them are pretty average.

As far as what Victor said, I don't have much experience with coyote dogs, but I have seen HOG DOGS work, and you know, hogs are supposed to be very intelligent. But, I have watched a small pack of dogs ranging from Jack Russell's to Pit Bulls and plain old mutts that you couldn't even guess their heritage. And boy, they sure knew how to flush hogs out of the manzanita! And, they knew enough to check the hogs to provide a shot for the hunter. In other words, they were pretty well trained....or they just came by it naturally. But nobody messed with the Jack Russel when he curled up in the prime location on the spare tire.

Anyway, I think a pack of dogs has teamwork that a pack of coyotes lack, I mean more than a pair would, hunting a critter, and yes they do do that. Not the same.

Still, I cannot argue with the argument that a coyote is tough to beat in any given category. They are survivors, pure and simple. And far from worrying about extinction, in the last 50/60 years, they have expanded their range in every direction while being pursued relentlessly. See, that's grit. Gotta hand it to them. But dogs have pretty well established their presence as well!

Good hunting. El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Paul Melching
Moderator-Night Hunting Forum & can't get it up! This matter is in dispute resolution!
Member # 885

Icon 1 posted May 24, 2020 04:02 AM      Profile for Paul Melching           Edit/Delete Post 
A coyote can out run your Tillie on any day why on earth would you want your dog to fight a coyote that's just stupid ! vet bills for the price of a pelt some dogs are employed as coyote fighters the handler knows the risk ! I'm sure Brent will tell you the last thing he wants is contact, you have a hound go find some coons!

--------------------
Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !

Posts: 3643 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690

Icon 1 posted May 24, 2020 06:15 AM      Profile for TRnCO   Email TRnCO         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
My point about coyotes is that, yes, a breed of domestic dog might have a better nose and another breed of domestic dog might have better legs and still another breed might be a better fighter but over-all the coyote is the complete package. Add intelligence and adaptability and the coyote wins by a wide margin.
I think Koko nailed it here.

I grew up around grey hounds. I have a brother and a cousin that still run grey hounds. My dad also had an airplane that we got to watch many a race from over the years. Some of the things that I witnessed a coyote do to elude the grey hounds was pretty amazing.
It would take one hell of a good fighting grey hound to kill a coyote one on one. These days the grey hounds are big, like 80 pounds big, mostly because of the stag hound being bred into them. They can sure enough hold a coyote down but getting it killed, that's a tall order for a single dog.

--------------------
Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!

Posts: 993 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted May 24, 2020 08:25 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, there you go again! I wouldn't do any of this shit, I'm just asking a rhetorical question! You don't have to bite my head off!

But, matter of fact, I was just telling Tillie yesterday, (she is gorgeous and knows it)
Then I mentioned that we've been talking online and I wondered just how tough a nut she could be, at 55 pounds, dripping wet. Stacked up against an average 28 pound coyote, I sorta think she would have her ass handed to her.

Some people treat dogs differently. For many of us they become members of the family. My granddaughter would like to have Tillie come visit her for a few days. Other people keep them in a kennel and treat them with as much indifference as that neighbor down the block. You know what I mean? Dogs belong outside, on the one hand, and they sleep with you, on the other. I've already spent a couple grand on this pup, and some people might not even get the shots they need. There is plenty of cruelty to dogs and some of these people shouldn't own one, in my opinion.

A hound has more utility than running a raccoon up a tree. Let's say west of the big river, I see more hounds chasing cats and bears than coons.

Anyway, I think the question is just for comparative thinking. How can we accurately determine if a dog has a superior nose? So, that's when considered opinion comes in. Maybe one day they will count up all those olfactories that Vic mentioned , slice and dice and proclaim which nose weighs more, therefore can smell very faint odors a lot better than another critter.

I already know my pup is faster than a coyote, when she wants to. She's just built more like a cheetah than a warthog. A warthog, by the way, I've killed a couple, and they run pretty damned fast! They also are pretty hard to kill, like most African game, they run off like you missed, and drop dead a quarter mile away, good luck finding them! But where were we?

I don't think we mentioned the intelligence angle? A coyote is pretty damned smart on average. Some dogs are dumb as a post. Tillie has not shown me, to this point, that she is the sharpest knife in the drawer. Maybe it's all latent. So far I haven't expected too much and she hasn't shown too much.

What else is there?

Good hunting. El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted May 24, 2020 08:51 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Ok.............. Something else to consider;
How often have you known someone (probably city folk) who looks but just doesn't see stuff. Same with asking them if they hear or smell something. It's there and within their range of senses, but they're just not aware of their surroundings enough to notice until it's pointed out to them.

I think that, to a degree, even if a coyote and a domestic dog had equal senses, that the coyote would smell the rabbit and the domestic dog would hear the can opener.

I also think that 'somebody' is spoiling that mutt !!!

[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

--------------------
When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5843 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted May 24, 2020 12:43 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I had to snort reading that charge!

edit: wait just a darned minute!
A MUTT, is she?
edit: I'll have you know, both her grandparents are Champions and her littermate has already won first place in a puppy division. She comes from pedigreed stock and I have the document listing 7 generations. She's no mutt!

edit: we all know who is world champ at hearing a can opener! Any CAT!

edit: PS she does NOT sleep with me! I'll have you know!

[ May 24, 2020, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted May 24, 2020 02:35 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
Every dog's a mutt until I've petted it. Then it's my buddy.

--------------------
When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5843 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177

Icon 1 posted May 25, 2020 03:23 AM      Profile for earthwalker           Edit/Delete Post 
My dog is a mutt. A little bit of several breeds.
But one of the better dogs we've owned.
He does sleep in the house in the winter (he has no hair or under fur to speak of) except he sheds for months though. Answer that one.
He sheds hair short little reddish hair.
One of the better built conformation dogs we've had. Run! he can hit a top speed of 21mph as a sprint.

Don't know how to post pictures but he's a looker with a natural bobbed tail.

--------------------
You are never lost if you don't care where you're at.

Send rain and snow please! Send Lots of RAIN!
No lightning please

Posts: 735 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted May 25, 2020 08:08 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not really a dog breed snob. But, it does bother me that there are a lot of people that go out of their way to acquire some exotic breed. The lady behind me went to San Diego for her French Bulldog. Before that, she had that Chinese dog with the wrinkled face. (we've been neighbors for a long time)

But it seems everybody is trying to outdo the others with an Australian dog or a Purebred Labrador Retriever. German Shepards, English Bulldog, and French Poodle. German Shorthair Retrievers. Bernese Mountain Dog? St. Bernard? And all of those little dogs with Chinese names, designer dogs, I guess? All seem to be imported from somewhere, which adds to the mystic, I guess?

So, I'm on a one man Crusade. Just how many true recognized American originated breeds are there? Well, I can think of a Boston bulldog and I guess ugly, (and worthless) pit bulls are an American breed? Yes, there are a few that hardly anybody has heard of, Cur and a few dogs you see on ranches, can't think of their names right now?

But, how can you beat a coonhound for an American Original? My son said they are as common as fleas in North Carolina, but around here, nobody knows what they are looking at? What kind of dog is that? They have absolutely no clue! And yet, at the dog park, with all those exotic breeds running around, they all stop and stare at Tillie. And, they all ask. They know she's something, not a Mutt. Blue Tick doesn't show recognition in their face, sometimes, "coonhound" does, at least the word; but it doesn't conger up an image.

I think a coonhound makes a fine pet. Tillie doesn't have freakish looks, a snout that's pushed in, stubby legs like a weinerdog. No docked tail, no clipped ears like a Doberman. Just looks like a healthy dog!

What's not to like?

Good hunting. El Bee

[ May 25, 2020, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted May 25, 2020 09:25 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
The dog that we have now is a pit / mutt mix. About 50#. She actually guards our patio cats against stray cats that wander thru then prances around quite proud of herself for running a strange cat off.
I tell people that she's a pedigreed Chihuahua Grande and usually get some comment like "Yeah, I've heard something about that breed."
People will believe anything, but hey, if o bama doesn't need a birth certificate then my dog doesn't need papers. [Big Grin]

--------------------
When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5843 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177

Icon 1 posted May 25, 2020 09:29 AM      Profile for earthwalker           Edit/Delete Post 
You have the catalougha (sp?)
Kemmer Stock Mountain Cur
Black Mouth Cur which our dog Gus is mostly.
Have had 3 registered Kemmer Stock Mountain Curs(some the hardest headed dogs we've ever owned).

Queensland Blue Heelers
Australian Shepards.

--------------------
You are never lost if you don't care where you're at.

Send rain and snow please! Send Lots of RAIN!
No lightning please

Posts: 735 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted May 25, 2020 11:23 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, thanks! That's some I was thinking of. However, all those dogs are pretty casually bred and thee ain't much in the way of real standards. And some people seem particularly proud of diluting whatever breed they have with another questionable girlfriend from down the road. Pretty soon, they are kidding themselves about the history and background of their backyard breeding program. You never see them come up with a definitive "look" like a Rottweiler or even a German Shepard, or a Beagle.

For sure, nothing wrong with mutts. I'm one myself, Northern European with a Polish surname. And, I did get that Gold Medal at Club Med! I guess Americans could be described as Heinz 57. People in other countries do recognize Americans without opening their mouth. Selective breeding!

Good hunting.El Bee

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 6 posted May 25, 2020 06:23 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
The Coyote Whisperer says:

For starters I'm gonna give few comments on what has already been said.
Vic is right to a point about the coyotes/ dogs nasal cavity and all the little smelling sensors they have per inch, longer the bridge of nose the more sensors, and also the dia. of each nostril/tube and the more there is the better they can smell. I read some of the same stuff when I did a search years back. Big question is if this is accurate then why can't a grey hound or stag hound smell its own ass as they have a longer nose than a coyote and many dogs/breeds? Take a coon hound for another example there nose is about same length as a coyote but larger in dia. tube so you would think they can also smell more than a coyote. I think what gives a coyote its edge is its hearing due to how its ears are shaped and how they can cock them in multiple directions at same time. (one ear forward and other to the side ect.) You can see this happen a lot on a bedded coyote.

Koko Coyotes are bred to do one thing and that's multiply and survive and dogs are bred different as well to do different things. problem is most of the hunt is bred out of them when they became house dogs/show dogs and lost the ability to do what they was bred to do.

Earth walker; Grey hounds are bred for speed and use of there eyes which they use to run down a jumped coyote. Grey hounds are short winded/stamina and have a very short time they can run so they need to get on a coyote soon as possible and catch it in less than a mile or the game is over for them and they don't have the nose to track one down that's why a coon hound or vehicle is used to jump a coyote and then bring it into site for the grey hounds to see then they are dumped out of the box. A grey hound stag cross are bred for speed, eyes and the ability to catch and kill any coyote it catches. Grey hounds are also meant for open ground type of hunting/running.

Koko; there is a breed of dog that has it all for hunting coyotes and then running them down and then killing them. They are called "Running walkers". The breed was started by George Washington which came from Blood hounds, American fox hounds, English fox hounds, grey hounds, whippets and few other breeds crossed in to make the perfect coyote/fox catching dog. The line was improved and then improved again and again over the years and still being improved or trying to keep the same valuable traits they have. They was bred for Nose, Brains, use of eyes and heads up running when needed, grit, handling ability in the field as well as at home in the kennel, bred to get along with other dogs as well as people and they can also make a good house pet if one wished to make a pet of one. You will see some variations in the breed from one cross or general area of the U.S. as everyone hunts a little different. Take the hunters in Wisc. for example they hunt mostly in the big woods and want the dogs to run a coyote to a shooter that is posted up, nose and brains is important here and they can't be afraid of a gun going off. Lots of speed is not needed just good tracking ability. Treeing walkers or other coon hounds work well for this also and from time to time they will catch up to a coyote as they dog it the coyote will grow tired and then turn to fight or just try to hide under a log or brush pile. Most cases its just a simple bay up and a dog handler will have to walk in and kill the coyote for the dogs. You may come across a few tree hounds from time to time that can kill a coyote but they need help doing so. Pack effort".

Paul like mentioned a tree dog can dog a coyote for hours and soon it will get tired and face the dogs so yes Tilli can catch one. My breeding of Running Walkers are bred to go another step forward. They are bred to jump, track, run a coyote and then catch it and kill it very quickly. The dogs jump a coyote they have the ability to run with there eyes like a stag hound which gives the dogs extra speed as they can run faster with there heads up than they can with heads/nose down to the ground. A tree dog only knows how to run with its nose on the ground, bad weather conditions is where a tree dog shines at times over a Running walker. Tree dogs in general are not fighting dogs but you may come across a few that will fight a coyote, just not very good at it and it can get messy, they work best for running to a gun and a simple bay up. As for a dog getting hurt I've had more wounds on a dog from fighting a coon than I have from fighting with coyotes. Only time a coyote can be a issue is if its in a culvert/pipe then a dog has to fight a coyote face to face. A smart bred dog with plenty of drive will over come this obstacle and kill a coyote very quickly.

TRnco; as for grey hounds yes a good throat dog can be hard to come by but there are many up to the job, some guys run 2-4 to help out with the catch. I run seven dogs that do it all sept only 4 of them are throat dogs and the rest just jump in and do there part to help so the throat dog can get a grab. Kind of like watching a Mongoose kill a snake or a group of them, its all team work.

My main catch dog does not bark on track till he jumps then he lights up. Some guys want there dogs to bark with every breath but I don't as I have good reason for it. A dog barks all the time the coyote hears it coming and will sneak off so then the dogs will have to spend a little time playing catch up and track the coyote down. Since my catch dog Uno doesn't bark much till after jump he has the extra edge, (smart dog) as of last season Uno caught five coyotes in there bed and killed them where they laid by himself. Year before he caught 3 in there beds and has assistance with one big male. The coyotes didn't smell, see or hear him coming. How fast is a coyote? I read they can run 40 mph. for how long or how far I don't know at that speed but they do get tired. When a coyote is being shot at or run by dogs they only run as fast as they need to stay ahead of danger. In other words I've seen them with the dog at dam near full throttle just a few tail lengths behind the coyote and then some chases never did see the coyote as it was balls to the walls. A chase will go as little as just a few yards up to one or two one mile sections then the coyote is caught or just stops running and bays up or the chase can go on for as much as 52-62 miles or better depending on the coyote. Mileage comes off the Garmin and think they go by dog miles what ever that is. LOL Every jump is different you never know how its going to go till after a half hour or so then you can pretty much figure out how it will end. A thing about coyote behavior is a female and pups from the summer will tend to stick to just a few sections and the male will run back to where it was born that's why some of the chases can go on for some time. The male will run back to where it was born and then hole up or try to hide somewhere like a pipe or brush pile. Some of the guys who run dogs and shoot know this and they will get way ahead of the coyote and wait for it to come across the road heading into the section it was born in. welp that's all for now hope you enjoyed it. will cover some coyote behavior and other dog breeds when I have the time. Snow-Walker kennels....

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted May 26, 2020 10:23 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Please quit pestering me concerning the identity of the above writer! I promised not to divulge his name. Because he's so well known, most of you will be able to guess who he is anyway.

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted May 26, 2020 10:39 AM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
John Henry ????

--------------------
When urinating outdoors, remember to face East, toward Mecca whenever possible.

Posts: 5843 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted May 26, 2020 11:07 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
LOL

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177

Icon 1 posted May 26, 2020 02:19 PM      Profile for earthwalker           Edit/Delete Post 
Knew some people who had a Russian wolf hound.
Like to scared us to death for the first time we drove into the ranch. He looked into the window of a 3/4ton truck.
He was the biggest wimp.
But his dad was one of the coyote killing-est dog they ever owned.

He who won't be named.
Only reason I said grey hounds and such it was the first fastest dog that came to mind. I know they need mostly clear ground and it's a short race.
You made all good points.

John Henry wouldn't lower himself to talk about anything other than Airedales.

--------------------
You are never lost if you don't care where you're at.

Send rain and snow please! Send Lots of RAIN!
No lightning please

Posts: 735 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 6 posted May 26, 2020 09:13 PM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
Wow! That’s mighty perceptive!

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2

Icon 1 posted May 27, 2020 07:52 AM      Profile for Leonard   Author's Homepage   Email Leonard         Edit/Delete Post 
I know you fellas have been dying to get this chapter 2 info!

Yes, it's Tim Anderson in southern Minneesota. Seems to love his dogs.... as we all do. So, he can't be all bad? lol

Anyway, here's his thoughts and update about what makes a good coyote dog. Personally. I never heard of a "Running Walker" before, but that's what they are, no visual standards just behavior, apparently?

Timothy Anderson
To nbosin@aol.com

John hennery is back East and posts once in awhile on some of the pred. boards in Face book. Sherry Bentley another old member from N.Y. or Pen. has made a name for herself promoting women's hunting on the East coast. Me I'm just small potato's never really cared for all that lime light stuff. Pred. calling was getting expensive and too commercialized with land with locked gates starting to pop up and more and more calling contests taking place. S.D. has a contest almost every week all winter long for an example. I started my new adventure with just a Red-bone hound I got from the Humane society and she could put fear in most any coyote. I found out I needed a dog better built for the job and with a lot more speed if I wanted to get a lot of coyotes. I added a Running Walker female with a what they called a Royal pedigree, she had it all from some of the best dogs in the country as far as breeding goes. My Red bone had to be put down so I decided to just stick with Running walkers. With the help of a few friends and one who became my mentor I was able to breed my female to a male that was worthy and had some of the same genetics and a few pluses to help improve what I already had. I bred for a little extra in size, grit, brains and some speed.
As luck would have it only one pup was big in size and the rest of the litter just average so I kept the bigger pup which I named Uno and also kept a female and another male and the rest of the pups was sold to hunters in Iowa, S.D. and Wisc. I was still a little dog poor and only had one good dog but needed some help moving the pups along as far as hunting goes and to show them how to fight a coyote. I got lucky and my mentor broke his ankle and could not hunt all of his dogs so he asked If I would like to use one of his dogs to help get the pups going. I jumped on it and my mentor from Iowa drove up halfway to meet and give me the dog. My female pup drowned that winter in a creek fighting with a coyote, she had a lot of heart and grit and just didn't know how to let go. Both Male pups Uno and his brother Max caught and killed there first coyote at eight month's of age and I'm also forever grateful for my mentor helping me out. It was all down hill after that and I had my mentor there to help out with any medical issue I would have with the dogs. I got learned up real quick on what injuries I could treat and what ones would have to have a Vet take care of. Main thing was antibiotics and staples and a year later I learned to do most of my Vet work, really saves on the pocket book. Its all about the dogs and the dogs come first before anything else. I talked with the guys who bought the other pups off and on over the years and everyone was happy with the dogs they got, I even went so far as to try and buy some of them back as I was short. They all said no way. LOL
I was really getting the feel for this and spent about a year looking at Pedigrees and studying them and then passed on to my mentor to see what he thought and we found a male that we both cold agree on and found out the male was located in up north of me. I made contact with the stud dogs owner and agreed to have my female bred to his male and we also became good friends over the years till his passing.
This litter had more nose bred into it or same if you will and a little more grit and more brains. I kept two pups out of this litter, a black/tan male and a Liver/white female and sold the rest to hunters north of me. Wife helped raise both litters and a little disappointed that they left so fast. LOL I was asked to do a puppy hunt contest that summer and all of my pups that was born from this litter would be running in it as well. My Liver/white female injured a toe so she was out for most of the hunts but when he could run she was awesome. Other than her all the pups from my litter placed in the top ten all summer at each hunt and my pup Moe made it to 6th place in the state hunt and took 5th a week later at a Memorial hunt put on for my friend that passed away. I now have my foot in the door as far as my line of dogs go and have a growing list of hunters that would like a pup when ever I make a cross again. I have seven dogs total that I run/hunt with most are mine sept for two females, one is out of Nebraska and the other female which Leonard really likes is from Iowa, (Tina) she by the way can really fly and has no problem burning the hair off a coyote.
Even though the running walker is one breed there are many cross variations to them meant to do or improve different things or a different way of hunting and being able to hunt in different parts of the country, not every hunter hunts them the same way. Some guys just want to run puppies in the puppy hunts then sell them after or keep them and make a cross with them if they really shine and most of theses puppies are bred with as much speed as they can put into them along with a avr. nose but some brains as well. Then you have some dogs that are bred to do both, win puppy hunts and also hunt well on the outside of the pen. I breed for hunting outside of the pen and use a cross that's most suitable for hunting in the snow and cold temps. I also breed for a long hour type of dog and one that can be hunted everyday for 6-7 days before they need a rest which will take about 2-3 days to charge them back up. Oh they could go longer than that but the deal is they won't run as fast or hunt as hard.
Leonard mentioned dog breeds that have some sort of standard like color, size ect. The Running walkers come in many colors or mix of colors, some liver/white, black/tan, tan, redish brown, tri-color and tri color blanket back and so on. Most look just like a fox hound as that's where part of there breeding came from and has been carried on and improved.

--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!

Posts: 27716 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged


All times are Pacific
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Huntmasters



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.0